#68 - Marriage Tips for Parents of Children with Sensory Differences with Michelle Purta

***For transcript of this episode, scroll down!

💍 Want to strengthen your marriage while raising kids with sensory differences? In this episode, Michelle Purta, a mom and marriage coach, shares her personal journey and practical tips for managing parenting challenges and maintaining a strong partnership.

In this episode, we’re chatting all about:

•  The difference between coaching and psychologist
•  Her personal experience as a mom of 2 children with sensory differences
•  The overwhelm parents of sensory differences experience
•  How to connect with your partner when you don’t agree on parenting choices
•  Sharing the mental load with your partner
•  Grief when you realize that your child has sensory differences

🎙️🎙️🎙️ Tune in – because your marriage deserves a little extra care, just like the kids!

Want to connect more with Michelle?

Don't forget to grab her FREE Masterclass: The #1 Conversation Married Couples Need To Have (But Aren't) - https://www.michellepurta.com/pg/conversation 

Or, find her at:

• Podcast: https://www.michellepurta.com/podcast
• Website: https://www.michellepurta.com
• IG: https://www.instagram.com/michellepurtacoaching
• FB Group: https://www.michellepurta.com/groups/marriageandmotherhood 

Transcript: 

Sam: Well, hello. I'm still so excited

to be back on the podcast this month

after my little maternity break, last episode.

My child hardly eats anything. It was very popular.

If you listen to that episode, I would love

to know your thoughts on the different format.

You can connect with me personally on Instagram at Dr.

Sam Goldman. Just send me a little DM

and let me know if you like the format

of answering questions or not.

I really do listen to you guys

and make changes based on what you tell me.

Okay, so today's episode is really special.

Over the past couple years, I have really begun

to notice the emotional toll that raising a child

with sensory differences places on the marriages

of my client's parents, whether it's

because they're just totally exhausted

and have no time to connect,

disagree about their child's needs,

or are fighting about who does more on any given night.

There's no doubt about it.

Raising a child with sensory differences changes

how you interact with your partner.

A couple months ago, I connected with Michelle,

who is not only a marriage coach,

but also has two children with sensory differences.

Who better to speak on this topic than someone

who specializes in it but has also been through it herself?

As you'll hear in this episode,

I was definitely asking her all the questions about

promoting a healthy marriage while raising a kid, because JR

and I have just had this massive shift in our life

and are just navigating it for the first time.

I found her tips immensely helpful for us, especially

as we've been going through it with Baby C,

and I know you will too.

But before we begin, let me give you a little intro.

Michelle Perta is a marriage coach, wife and mom of three.

She helps parents transform their marriage from co-parenting

roommate status to feeling like a couple.

Again, she's so passionate about helping couples learn how

to communicate with each other so they can argue less

and feel more connected as a couple while raising kids.

She wants couples to be able

to enjoy their marriage no matter what stage

of motherhood they're in.

So without further ado, here's Michelle.

Sam: Hey, Michelle.

Welcome to the podcast.

I am really, really excited for this one

because I have a whole different outlook

than when we last spoke.

Um, so I just wanna start

by having you give a little introduction to yourself.

Michelle: Yeah. First of all, congratulations.

I'm so excited for you to join the mom club.

Uh, so hi everyone. I'm Michelle Herda.

I'm a marriage coach.

I am at the time of recording living in California,

but in the month I will be moving to Georgia.

Um, I am a marriage coach. I'm a mom of three.

I'm a happily married woman.

And yeah, I I never thought I would be a marriage coach.

It's not something that you grow up as a little kid dreaming

of doing, but it kind of just happened based on

what I feel like is really my biggest success in life is

growing myself in terms of what I came from.

Right? I didn't come from a good model of

what a healthy relationship looks like,

what good communication looks like,

what partnership looks like,

and I've had to fumble my way

through different relationships trying

to figure out why I kept encountering the same drama

over and over and over again.

And now I've got this beautiful marriage

where we are truly equal partners.

We get frustrated with each other sometimes,

but we are truly equal partners.

We have great communication.

We're always continuing to grow together as a couple

into better versions of us so

that we can serve our marriage better and be better parents.

And honestly, I never thought I would be able to say

that I'm in the type of relationship that I think I deserve,

and that we get to be that healthy model for our kids

because we're both doing the work.

So yeah, here I am trying to help others like me

who didn't grow up with a healthy model, who want

to be a healthy model for their kids

and reap the benefits of enjoying their marriage more

and not feel like just becoming parents means that it has

to be put on the back burner.

It has to just kind of fade out

and become this co-parenting roommate dynamic,

but that they get to enjoy their marriage no matter

what stage of parenthood they're in.

And they get to have calm conversations even when you're

talking about something tough and it doesn't have

to blow up in, have that awkward distance that you're trying

to hide from your kids, but you know it's there.

Sam: Yeah, that sounds like the dream.

So you did say

that you never thought you would be a marriage coach.

When, when and how did you make that shift?

Like were your friends asking you for advice?

What made you kind of jump from that?

Michelle: Okay, we've worked on a healthy marriage,

but now I wanna help other people.

Yeah, so I wanna say that a lot

of friends have asked me for relationship advice.

I've always been that type of person that can kind

of see both sides and offer you perspective.

So don't come to me if you don't want that, right?

If you want someone who's just gonna be ride or die

and just like pick your side

and not offer perspective for your growth,

and I am not that person.

And it really took until my, um,

biological son, I am also a stepmom.

So my biological son, I was pregnant with him

and I gave birth and whatever it was,

the universe was not wanting me to go back

to work I was currently in.

What was I doing at the time? I was doing project management

and I went soul searching.

I was like, what is my purpose? What do I wanna do?

I know I don't wanna work with, um,

I don't wanna work for anyone.

And a few friends were like, Hey, you know,

I think these are your strengths.

And one person in particular shout out to Katie.

She said, you know, I think

that you'd be a great life coach.

I'm like, what is that? I don't understand what that is.

I don't have my life together.

How can I possibly support other people in

building their own, you know, dream life?

So she's like, no, no, no, just talk to my life coach.

She's been doing it for over 30 years.

She teaches people to become life coaches.

And I was like, okay.

And so after I met with her life coach, I was like, oh,

I guess I do have those qualities that are,

that come more naturally to me, right?

I, I do love to ask questions.

I do love to help people gain perspective

and choose what's best for them.

And based on my own experiences

and what I've grown through when it comes to communication,

partnerships, uh, partnerships, self-awareness, self-care,

self-love, I do feel like I have a lot to offer to people

who aren't there yet and just need some support.

And so I dove into that and I haven't looked back.

Sam: Oh, I love it. And so

something I had asked you when we first chatted was,

what exactly does a life coach do versus a psychologist?

I know a lot of parents wonder that, like,

who do I reach out to?

Yes. So I love your take on it.

Michelle: So can you share that with everyone?

Absolutely. So both fields have

their place in this world.

I, I firmly believe in both. Okay.

So I'm not gonna knock any.

Um, so when it comes to therapy,

so if you have mental health issues

or concerns, trauma, anxiety, depression, bipolar,

like you name it, all of those things

and it is interfering with your life,

with your marriage, go see them.

Okay? They are the experts when it comes to that.

Now, when it comes to coaching, they can be done in tandem

or one after the other depending on where you're at.

So if your baseline is like, I have trouble functioning,

doing basic life things

because of my mental health concerns, my traumas,

my path, absolutely.

Start with a therapist. If you're well on your way

or maybe you don't have any

of those concerns, coaching could be for you.

So coaching is really something that takes you from,

I feel okay about life, it's good, but I want more.

I know I can experience more joy,

more fulfillment, more happiness in life

in my relationships, in, you know, there's all kinds

of fields that life coaches support, right?

Um, relationships is just one of them.

Then a coach could be good for you

because they're more goal oriented.

We don't necessarily need to dig into your past and,

and do all that trauma work

because that is what therapists do.

Okay? So I love when my clients notice that

they can get support from both.

Like right now I have a client, he has anxiety

and it's debilitating for him sometimes.

So he now sees a therapist on the regular,

and I also work with him.

Um, I, I worked with him for a period of three months along

with his wife, and then now we're on like the,

the quarterly checkup kind of schedule, right?

Like, okay, how are things going with

with working on the tools that, that I've taught you and,

and implementing that stuff.

And so I think with coaching there's a lot more mentoring,

a lot more goal setting, a lot more like, hmm,

let's teach you how to think differently

to support yourself.

Sam: Yeah, I love the idea of seeing both too.

Um, I am definitely one of those people

who I go to everybody.

Um, yeah, why not? And I love talking

to all the different people because I feel like I just come

so much farther that way.

And everybody has different viewpoints

and different training, which I think makes it so unique.

So as you know, a lot, a lot of my majority is, my majority,

A lot of my community is raising kids

with sensory differences.

And so, as I have now personally learned over the past two

months, having a child is actually very hard on a marriage.

And so I can't even imagine what that's like

with a child with sensory differences.

I mean, that is just magnified.

So do you have any tips for them?

Michelle: Absolutely. And just for some context, I have two kids

with sensory differences.

Um, so my biological son has sensory processing

disorder and also my, uh, stepson,

he's got a DHD

and he is got dyslexia sensory seeking, whereas my,

my biological son is sensory avoidant.

So it's quite, uh, quite a combination to have there.

Um, yes, when we first discovered

or noticed these differences,

these neuro divergencies within our home, it did

feel like we had more than one child to take

after of each child, right?

It just comparing our lifestyle

and what challenges we needed to handle and,

and grow through was significantly different than our

friends families who had, uh,

neurotypical kids.

It just is harder. I'm just gonna put that out there. Okay.

So like my heart goes out to everyone who has these

differences that they're, they're growing through.

Um, now in every marriage, communication is like

the backbone, right?

Along with connection.

But when it comes to raising kids that have sensory

differences or challenges,

it becomes even more important to really prioritize

what type of marriage you want.

Because I will tell you from firsthand experience

how overwhelming it is as soon

as you realize what's going on.

Because a lot of times it's like, is this just my kid

or is this just all kids?

Like, you kind of go through that questioning

of your parenting style, your kid, what's going on

with them, how do they compare to their peers

and what's normal and what's not.

And then for me at least, when I first discovered that,

you know, my oldest son had a DHD

and dyslexia, I was like, oh my gosh, I have

to support him as much as possible.

What does this mean? What does this look like?

Reading all the articles, trying to, you know,

get the school team on board along with his mom

and just us working together and figuring it all out.

And then my son having sensory processing disorder

and working with an occupational therapist, which

by the way is the best field ever.

Okay? Um,

and I wish I knew about people like you way sooner,

but when I first started taking him

to see a pediatric ot, I was

so overwhelmed.

I, like, I will, I would sometimes want

to just like curl up into a ball and cry

because it was so much to do

and I was like super type A about it.

I was like, okay, I'm gonna put my needs to the side.

I need to just figure this out with him so that he can

not fall behind in school

and not, you know, end up in social situations

that are gonna cause a lot of problems for him.

And I quickly noticed how much I was doing myself,

which I'm sure you've heard a lot of, right?

Like the mom typically is like, oh my gosh, so much

to do head down, doesn't ask for help,

doesn't fill the partner in.

'cause it's too much work to do that

because they're the ones going to the appointments.

They're the ones learning and observing

and doing all of the things.

And I will tell you

that if I could do it all over again, I would not have done that.

But thankfully, because of the work

that I've done on myself, I realize

my patterns of being hyper independent start to kick in.

And I started to treat my husband differently.

And that, that was the point where I was like,

Nope, time out.

I have to bring him in,

even though it seems like additional work for me

to fill him in on the different, uh, different things

that we're gonna work on with our son

and the different routines we're now doing.

Because we were doing the, the brushing like

every couple hours we were doing the reflexes, we were just

trying different ways of talking to him and routines

and we were doing the whole shebang.

Okay? And had I brought him in sooner, I would've had

the feeling of support rather than I have

to do this all by myself.

It like, your future is on my shoulders.

But that's not true. Okay?

So if you're in this position right now where you're like,

I'm doing everything I, my spouse isn't helping,

let's level set here.

Let's hit the reset button, let's do some training.

Maybe you have your spouse go to an appointment

or two so they can learn.

Or maybe you guys share or go together if that's possible.

But it is really overwhelming to do by yourself.

And you don't have to,

can you lean on your spouse more?

Can you communicate more about how you're doing?

Even if it's like, oh man, I'm so overwhelmed today

because you know, they had an outburst.

I tried to give them the green socks

and they just weren't having it.

And they wanted the blue socks,

but the blue socks were in the

laundry 'cause they were dirty.

Like whatever. Right? Anything,

it seems like anything can set them

off, just let them know.

Because what we can share about how we're,

how we're experiencing this whole process, it's less for us

to keep in and more awareness for them.

So they know how they can interact with you differently

that day so they can be more supportive.

Okay. So yeah, I mean, just baseline,

communicate more period and let them support you.

Sam: I have never thought about it like that,

but there are so many moms I can already think of

and dads too, where they have been taking on the

entire load.

It's exhausting. So I think that was so relatable.

I know so many parents are really gonna click to that.

I'm even, I'm listening to that now as I'm like,

'cause we're doing, we're doing PT 

and I feel it, everything you just said, I'm like, oh,

we need to do a better job teaching him

so he can do it on the off times that I am.

I need a break or just to keep us going.

Michelle: Right? Keep it.

Or even if it does, it doesn't end up being even, right?

Like for every one time I do this, you do it one time

because I have a more flexible schedule,

so I am willing to take on more.

However, that doesn't mean that I do a hundred percent.

So my husband has a traditional, you know,

eight to five job.

So at the time when we were like super intensely doing all

of those things, which I'm so glad we've graduated from,

I was like, look, this is the schedule.

Like anything you can do at all in

or incorporate into your routine will be

so much weight off of me.

I understand you cannot do all of it.

I understand you can't do half of it.

That's not my expectation.

But anything you can do is gonna be so helpful

because I find myself losing it way more often.

And that's not who I wanna be for our family or for you.

And I'm finding myself even at night not wanting to connect

with you because I'm like, I just wanna zone out.

I don't want anything to like, I don't want anyone

to need anything from me.

I just need to like be in a sensory deprivation

kind of situation.

And just no one talked to me. No one need anything from me.

I'm just myself.

And so I think him hearing that,

he was like, oh my God, I had no idea.

I thought you had it all together.

'cause you make it look so easy.

I'm like, well, I'm dying a little bit every time inside, so

no, I, I'm glad you think it looks easy.

It's not easy for me. Okay.

It's very stressful

and I'm just not showing it until I blow up

and I don't wanna blow up.

I don't wanna reach that point.

And so he's like, okay, so in the mornings I will do the

brushing and the um, I don't remember what it's called.

It's like a feet thing. I'm sure you know the name.

Sam: The compressions?

Michelle: No, uh, okay. That along too.

But there's like a foot reflex, um, that you do

where it's like two fingers along the edge

and then you kind of like hold the, the thumb or the big toe

and the pinky toe,

Sam: the

Babinski Reflex.

Michelle: Yes, that was, yeah, Babinski. Okay.

So he was doing that in the morning

and then he was doing stuff at night.

I was like, oh my gosh, thank you, thank you.

And if you have not done this yet, I urge you

to have this conversation.

Give them the opportunity to support

because your spouse could likely be like my husband.

He was like, oh, you seem like you have it all together,

meanwhile you're dying inside.

Okay, so let's not die inside.

Let's welcome in that support.

Let's welcome in that partnership and see what happens.

Okay? Because you deserve to have time to yourself

and not feel like you are parenting by yourself,

when really you also have a partner.

Sam: Mm-Hmm. And I do wanna pause for a second

and hoot your horn

because all of that work

that you did when you talk about your son

and the sensory differences,

you have such a great understanding of him

and how to adapt in the moment.

The things that you've told me about how to work with him

and what you guys have done and how you understand him.

I mean, it is amazing.

So as much as you've done

and as exhausting as it is for forever,

I mean it is really exhausting,

especially just going to therapy.

I mean, you have really kind

of mastered the sensory differences, which is really cool.

Michelle: Thank you so much. I mean, I think just knowing

what we were dealing with helped a lot

because I was like, why are you so difficult?

You know, before I understood and,

and then that shift of learning about what was going on,

I was like, oh, you're not being difficult.

You are struggling.

And just that perspective shift helps so much with

how I viewed what was going on instead

of taking it personally.

Like you're trying to make us, like you're trying

to be difficult, you're trying, I was like, no,

there's something off here that you need support with.

And that's helped me become such a better parent

for his sister, his older brother.

And also just my overall compassion

for even my husband, right?

Like we all have issues.

We're not a hundred percent all the time.

Sometimes we're moody and cranky and whatever.

And now instead of like, geez, what's up your butt?

You're like, oh, I wonder why they are being like this.

I want something must be going on for them to have

to feel like this is how they're,

they need to respond right now.

Sam: Mm-Hmm. And in this process, did you guys ever,

were you not on the same page about the differences?

So like a lot of our parents will say, one of them is like,

there's something going on

and the other one's like, oh, they're just being, you know,

a boy or it's just a phase

or, I don't really think

there's anything, it's just with you.

Did you guys ever go through that?

Do you have any tips for parents on handling that?

'cause it is a really big issue for a lot of them.

Michelle: Thankfully not.

Um, my husband actually has experience with growing up

with a sibling who has a DHD.

So for him he was like, yeah, it's just like him.

Um, it was our son that was like, uh, is there something?

But he never like once, you know, so thankfully not.

However, yes, there are plenty of couples

who have experienced this and I understand why.

Okay? No one wants to feel like

their child has something quote unquote wrong with them.

Okay? So there's a little bit of grief

that goes on when you realize, oh,

you're not gonna have a normal childhood, we're gonna have

to devote more energy into supporting you.

That's not something we wanna be like, oh yeah, that's

what we want out of our life.

Right? And life is unpredictable.

So if you're in this position where you feel like

you think there's something up

and your partner doesn't, that's okay.

Sometimes it takes time for them to realize

that there is something different.

And we all go through these phases of understanding

and awareness and acceptance at different rates.

So if you firmly believe that that's something going on,

then just say, okay.

Like, well I do.

And I would like to take them to see a professional just to,

you know, just to clear the air, just to see like,

is there something, or am I being paranoid?

Because if my child is having trouble,

I would like to get them the help that they need.

Okay? And I'm sure your spouse is not gonna be like,

you wanna help our child?

That's ridiculous, right?

We all want what's best for our child.

And if you want, you could say,

we can keep this private if you want.

We don't have to tell anyone.

'cause maybe that's a, that's a concern of theirs

that people might look at you differently if there's

something different about your child or whatever.

But talk to them, okay,

there is a deeper concern coming up if they're resistant

to getting support and finding out what's going on.

And you never know what's gonna come up for you.

So talk that through.

Be compassionate, communicate

and just say, okay, well these are my concerns.

Uh, it doesn't mean we're gonna treat them any differently,

it's just that if they are having trouble,

just like when our child is learning to walk

or crawl, we're gonna help them.

Well right now our child is having trouble with X, Y, Z

and I wanna make sure that we're doing what we can

as their parents to support them in being the best selves

or being their best selves,

having the best experiences possible.

Okay, so I'm gonna set this appointment, I'm gonna take them

and, and see what's going on

and I'll let you know what they say.

That's such a unique way to look at it.

I've never heard anybody say it like that, but I love it.

Sam: Usually I say, you know, educate your partner

because one parent is usually researching a lot.

Like you said you were reading all the blogs. Mm-Hmm.

You are doing all the research. And the other one,

usually the one who doesn't think there's something going on

is because they haven't looked into it as much.

But I love saying, let's just go get it checked out

because if there is something,

I wanna make sure they're getting

the support that they need.

Right? That is such a great way to look at it.

Michelle: And I think what you shared is the common

route that people take.

But as the recipient of all those articles of all the,

all those, you know, whatever book recommendations,

whatever, if they're already resistant to accepting

that there might possibly be an issue, all you're going

to do is annoy them and shut them down

because you're pushing information that's not welcome.

Mm-Hmm. Okay.

It's like my one friend has a in-law who barrages her

with articles and things like that

and she's like, I'm just gonna mute her conversation

'cause I cannot stand it.

You don't want that type of dynamic

with your spouse if they're not welcoming it, that's okay.

That doesn't mean that you cannot take action by any means.

You can still talk to the pediatrician, which I will say

if your child has sensory issues,

that's not the best person to talk to.

Okay? I love our pediatrician,

but he did not spend enough time to notice

that there were sensory issues.

He suspected that our son had anxiety, which he does.

But that wasn't the underlying issue.

And it wasn't until a friend suggested seeing an OT

because of my son's feeding issues, that I recognized that

I went down the Google black hole

and I was like, oh my gosh, I think he has SPD,

maybe he's autistic.

I don't know. It doesn't matter.

But I need to get a professional's take on what's going on

so I know what to do to help him.

So yeah. So what if your partner isn't on board yet? Right?

Sometimes it takes other people telling them something

for them to believe it.

And I'm sure all couples have this, right?

Like there's times where it's like my husband's like

suggesting something to me.

I was like, nah, it's fine, it's fine.

And then a friend will say the same thing to me

and I'm like, oh, I never thought of that.

And my husband's just in the background.

It's like, I just said that to you two months ago.

And I'm like, well, I wasn't ready to hear it.

Sam: For some reason when they

tell us it's just very different. It is. It's,

Michelle: And depending on what it is, right?

Mm-Hmm. Obviously I listen to him,

but in some instances where I'm like,

nah, it's fine, it's fine.

Yeah. Sometimes that unbiased,

especially when it's a professional opinion.

Yes. When he does, I mean, make all the difference.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Sam: So changing gears a little bit,

a little bit more personal, but on your website you

pinpointed how me

and my husband are feeling exactly right now.

So I'm gonna read a little bit of it.

So you go from having all the time in the world

for flirting, traveling, talking for hours,

to feeling too tired to hang out

and like you're just not on the same team anymore.

I related to that so hard

and I think sleep deprivation can really do that to you.

So please tell me there's a way back to

that first part after kids.

Michelle: Absolutely. There is. Oh my gosh. Okay.

So give yourself some grace

because you are in one of the toughest seasons

because your body's not your own.

You don't decide how long you get to sleep

and you are really at the will of your baby.

Okay? However, just like when you first discover

that your child has sensory issues,

communication is the bedrock.

Okay? When you communicate with your spouse about

what your expectations are, what his expectations are,

what he wants, what he needs, what you two are wanting

to work towards, what you miss, all the important things

that make up your life together, that

you have those moments in your head where like,

I wish he would just do this, or Why did he do that?

I don't understand. But you don't verbalize it, right?

Or maybe you say it without tact

and it comes off as an attack.

Those moments, if you just add those in a calm,

productive conversation could ease

how your dynamic shifts once you become parents.

Okay? Ideally you would have this conversation beforehand,

but most people don't know to do that.

They kind of just like get excited about the

high of having a kid.

The kid comes, you're like, yay.

And you're like, wait a minute,

I didn't think it was gonna be like this.

Right? And so really sitting down,

and I have a free masterclass on this, uh, that I would love

to share with your listeners, okay?

Oh yes. I call it the number one conversation

that married couples need to have, but aren't.

And this is all about creating that shared family vision of

what life looks like.

Okay? So you from a young age

and it's developed over the years, have had this idea of

what family life looks like and what you want for yourself

and your life, right?

As a individual, as a couple, as a parent,

as a whole family, okay?

And your spouse also has their version.

Sometimes they're different, sometimes they overlap.

Hopefully they overlap.

And then there's that united version

that you haven't created yet

because you haven't talked about it, right?

Because sometimes we compromise, we're like, oh, okay,

I'm willing to do that if it's

for the collective good of our family.

And so this masterclass will help you develop that so

that you can have a good foundation of what to talk about

with your spouse so

that you can have all these things sorted out.

So it's not just, you know, like you get into these routines

where you're like, I guess I'll do dishes

and I'll do this and that and that.

But it actually hasn't ever been formally defined.

Who owns what? You kind of just fill in the spaces.

And a lot of times women end up doing more domestic

responsibilities than men.

They prioritize other things

or you know, maybe from their upbringing it just

wasn't a routine thing for them.

So they're just not thinking about it, right?

Going through this masterclass is going

to help you develop a United family vision so

that you know, okay, these are my roles,

these are your roles, this, this is how they work together,

this is what we're working towards.

Whether it's weekly, biweekly, monthly date nights,

annual couples trips, so

that you're working from your goal instead of reactively,

oh, well there's so much going

on, this is what I need to do.

But rather, oh, what do we need to do to make this happen?

If we wanna calm, fun, kind, caring, you know,

fill in the blank type of dynamic at home,

who do we each need to be to create that?

And how do we need to curate this lifestyle so

that we can be this version of ourselves

as a couple, as an individual.

So anyway, I won't give it away, but there's a lot in there.

Sam: Sounds like a very helpful masterclass

and one we should, we should have taken prior to.

Michelle: Likewise. Yes.

Sam: Um, so this was so amazing.

I honestly have so much more questions.

I think we're gonna have to have you back for part

two. Yeah,

Let's do it.

But where else can, we'll, we'll um, link

that masterclass, but where else can everyone connect

with you to get some help to keep learning?

Michelle: Yeah. So since you're on here, I'm assuming you love

to listen to podcasts.

I have my own and Samantha was actually a guest on mine,

so go check it out.

It's called The Marriage and Motherhood Podcast.

I'd love to, uh, hear from you on what it is

that you wanna hear about

and how the episodes land with you,

but I really feel like you're going to get a lot out of it.

It's an amazing place for you to learn about communication,

partnership, even personal growth.

'cause that is essential for a happy marriage

and all like doing it all while raising kids.

And even if you're not a mom,

I've had dads listen to it too.

So just ignore that and just sub in whatever you are.

Sam: Yeah. That's awesome.

Well, thank you again so much for being here,

and hopefully we'll have you back soon.

Michelle: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.